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与哈佛和麻省理工等美国顶尖大学的学生相比,来自中国和印度顶尖大学的学生有多聪明呢

来源:  BBSGood社区    时间:2019-10-27 09:30:07   关注:57   转发


How talented are students from India and China's top universities, such as Tsinghua University or an IIT, compared to students from America's top universities like Harvard or MIT?


与哈佛、麻省理工等美国顶尖大学的学生相比,来自印度和中国顶尖大学(如清华大学或印度理工学院)的学生有多聪明呢?


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以下是Quora读者的评论:


Raghu Venkataraman, studied at University of Michigan Ross School of Business


The top universities in India and China attract the best brains in their country. And there are simply more of them. The top 1 percent of India and China has a denominator of 1 billion people.


I would postulate that they many of them could use some intensive training in English speaking and social skills, but not much more to hold their own against the Harvard chaps, or others of that ilk.


They don’t need to go to a Western University to prove their worth.


The prime motivator for a majority of them to join a Master’s program in the US or Europe is often just to be able to use the Western university brand and placement offices to land them a good job. I would warrant that they may pick up some useful skills at Harvard, MIT, or Caltech along the way, but I would say that their incremental contributions are overrated.


Not surprisingly, the “best” companies restrict their searches on the “best” schools. In many ways a self-fulfilling prophecy. It is a matter of efficient search. The concentration of opportunities in the “great” schools will not go away, but they will have less impact on individual success. At least I hope so!


The West offers more opportunities to work in stimulating environments. And that is one area where Western companies do excel.


The US is the country where the idea of - “who you are is a function of what you can do, and not where you are from” - is the most powerful among developed nations.


印度和中国的顶尖大学吸引了本国最优秀的人才。他们的人数更多。印度和中国最富有的1%人口的分母是10亿人。


我认为他们中的很多人可以接受一些英语演讲和社交技能的强化训练,但在与哈佛的小伙子们或其他类似的人的竞争中,他们的优势就没那么多了。


他们不需要去西方大学证明自己的价值。


对于大多数人来说,去美国或欧洲攻读硕士学位的主要动机往往只是能够利用西方大学的名气和就业办公室为他们谋得一份好工作。我可以保证,他们可能会在哈佛、麻省理工学院或加州理工学院学到一些有用的技能,但我要说,这些增值效果被高估了。


毫不奇怪,“最好”的公司会把他们的目标局限在“最好”的学校上。在很多方面,这无关乎自我实现,而是有效搜索的问题。机会集中在“好”学校的现象不会消失,但它们对个人成功的影响会越来越小。至少我希望如此!


在美国,“取决于你能做什么的是你是谁,而不是你来自哪里”的理念在发达国家中最为强大。


 


May Mona


Students from top American universities achieve more career success compared to students from top Indian or Chinese universities. That is because American universities not only provide students with a better quality of education, but also better prepare them for the real world.


Indians and Chinese are intelligent for sure. But memorizing entire textbooks is different from being creative and having a risk-taking attitude. American students have a combination of both (intelligence and creativity), or at least a better handle on the latter. Indians and Chinese are better at the former (memorizing and following a routine). And guess who dominates the field of tech, especially in terms of innovations? Americans and sometimes foreign born individuals who studied in American universities. They ask the right questions and are passionate about their career field. Asians go into STEM because it's lucrative and their parents wanted them to. They study well and get good jobs. But they're not the ones who sit in their basement in the middle of the night and invent entire operating systems. Americans do that.


In other words, American universities produce more talented and driven individuals


与印度或中国顶尖大学的学生相比,美国顶尖大学的学生获得了更多的职业成功。这是因为美国大学不仅为学生提供了更好的教育质量,而且更好地为他们进入现实世界做准备。


印度人和中国人确实很聪明。但熟背整本教科书与创造性和冒险精神是不同的。美国学生两者兼备(智力和创造力),或者至少对后者有更好的把握。印度人和中国人更擅长前者(记忆和循规蹈矩)。猜猜谁主宰了科技领域,尤其是在创新方面?美国人,有时是在美国大学学习的出生在外国的人。他们提出正确的问题,对自己的职业领域充满热情。亚洲人进入STEM是因为它有利可图,而且他们的父母希望他们这样做。他们学习好,能找到好工作。但他们不是那些半夜坐在地下室发明整个操作系统的人。而美国人会这么做。


换句话说,美国大学培养了更多有才华、有干劲的人。


 


Vishakh Menon, Gives advice on college admissions


Students in top universities in India or China would be way smarter than Harvard or MIT students. Just to get into IIT you need to take the IIT-JEE, which has been called one of the hardest tests in the world. The gaokao test is also extremely difficult. Students who score the highest on these tests get into schools like IIT and Tsinghua University.


And then we have Harvard and MIT. There is no minimum grade, there is no hard entrance exam. Harvard and MIT admissions counselors look at, not only academics, but also extracurricular activities and passions that the student has. They have a holistic admissions process that looks at the applicant as a person, not a bunch of test scores. This isn’t saying that Harvard students are dumb, they just have 2–3 passions. Question asked during the admissions process include, Do you have the power to do more, Have you pushed yourself, Do you have a very clear passion, and what have you done to increase your interest in a subject. These are just some of the questions that are asked.


In conclusion, schools like IIT accept people who spend 18 out of 24 hours studying, but are extremely smart and Harvard admits students who are living life their way, and are doing things they like.


Sorry for the extremely long answer. Hope this helped!


译文来源:三泰虎 http://www.santaihu.com/48668.html 译者:Joyceliu


印度或中国顶尖大学的学生要比哈佛或麻省理工的学生聪明得多。为了进入印度理工学院,你需要参加印度理工学院JEE考试,这被称为世界上最难的考试之一。高考也非常难。在这些测试中得分最高的学生可以进入印度理工学院和清华大学等学校。


然后是哈佛和麻省理工。没有最低分数要求,没有难度极高的入学考试。哈佛和麻省理工学院的招生顾问不仅关注学术,还关注学生的课外活动和热情。他们有全面的招生考量,把申请人当作一个人来看待,而不是一堆考试分数。这并不是说哈佛学生笨,他们只是有2-3种激情。在招生过程中被问到的问题包括,你是否有能力做更多的事情,你是否鞭策自己,你是否有非常明确的热情,你做了什么来增加你对某一学科的兴趣。这些只是被问到的其中一些问题。


综上所述,像印度理工学院这样的学校接受那些一天学习18小时,但非常聪明的学生,哈佛也接受那些按照自己的方式生活,做自己喜欢的事情的学生。


抱歉我的回答太长了。希望这能有所帮助!


 


William Beeman, Professor and Chair, University of Minnesota


Tsinghua and IIT are the equivalent of the best universities in the United States. They may be much better, in fact. Admission to these universities is far more competitive than MIT or Harvard, and for technical subjects, they are considerably better than Harvard, and for some MIT programs as well.


Students from India or China who think that “any Ivy League University” is better than Tsinghua or IIT are simply wrong. If they can gain admission to either of these superb universities (Tsinghua or IIT) as well as many other excellent universities outside of the U.S. (several Saudi Arabian universities are the best in the world in chemical engineering, for example), they should absolutely do so. They will get an equivalent or better education there, and they will save enormous amounts of money.


At the graduate level there may be excellent reasons for studying in Ph.D. programs (NOT universities—individual programs), in the United States for specialized training. Students graduating from Tsinghua or IIT or their equivalent, AND WHO DO EXCELLENT WORK, will gain admission to the best graduate programs in the world


清华和印度理工与美国最好的大学不相上下。事实上,它们可能更好。这些大学的入学竞争比麻省理工学院或哈佛大学要激烈得多,在技术学科上,它们也比哈佛大学好得多,在麻省理工学院的一些项目上也是如此。


来自印度或中国的学生认为“所有常春藤联盟大学”都比清华或印度理工学院好,这是完全错误的。如果他们能够被这些一流大学(清华或印度理工学院)以及美国之外的许多优秀大学(例如,沙特阿拉伯的几所大学在化学工程方面是世界上最好的)录取,他们绝对应该这样做。他们将得到同等或更好的教育,还能节省大量的学费。


在研究生阶段,也许有很好的理由在美国攻读博士学位,接受专门培训。从清华或印度理工学院或类似学校毕业的学生,如果很出色,将被世界上最好的研究生院校录取。


 


Danial Ali Shah, studied at Head Start


Talent depends on every individual, you cannot categorize a whole population based on talent. However, I will say that Indian and Chinese Students are way tougher as they go through an extremely ruthless and stressful education system. Asian students have a much better grasp of physics, math and all other concepts in engineering courses. I personally know IIT students who followed masters degree in the top engineering universities in America and Europe. They breezed through the courses and did not find any difficulty in doing them in contrast to the rest of the students.


Asian students face 100 times more pressure than the average MIT student and are more studious. The expectations from their families and society is unbearable, they are in this rat race from an early age, they get smacked by their teachers and families. Its a life or death situation for some students. Add to that many of these students face ragging(bullying) in college. Add all these factors, you get a really tough hard working student. I feel that SOME Harvard or MIT students feel entitled and their life is not even 10% as difficult compared to those of top Asian students.


And it is not like they are all mindless robots. That was the case 5–10 years ago when majority of students were only hell bent on getting a job and had no other ambition. Even, then the emergence of so many Indians in silicon valley occured and IITians became CEOs of companies like microsoft. Nowadays, many IITians are involved in innovation and are responsible for an increasing amount of start ups in India. Creativity is flourishing, there is a wealth of smart and beneficial engineering brains in India and China


才华取决于每个人,你不能根据个人的才华来给整个族群分类。然而,我要说的是,印度和中国的学生要坚韧得多,因为他们经历了极其残酷和高压的教育体系。在工程学课程中,亚洲学生对物理、数学和所有其他概念的掌握要好得多。我个人知道印度理工学院的学生在美国和欧洲的顶尖工科大学攻读硕士学位。他们会很轻松地通过这些课程。


亚洲学生面临的压力是麻省理工学生平均水平的100倍,而且他们更用功。来自家庭和社会的期望是极其高的,他们从小就处于这种激烈的竞争中,他们受到老师和家人的打击。对一些学生来说,这是生死攸关的问题。此外,许多学生在大学里还面临着欺凌。把所有这些因素加起来,你必须成为一个非常努力学习的学生。我觉得一些哈佛或麻省理工的学生觉得自己有资格,他们的生活根本没有顶尖亚洲学生的10%那么艰难。


并不是说他们都是没有头脑的机器人。这是5-10年前的情况,当时大多数学生只是拼命找工作,没有其他的雄心壮志。即便如此,硅谷还是出现了许多印度人,印度理工学院的毕业生成为了微软等公司的首席执行官。如今,许多印度理工学院的学生都参与了创新,并主导印度越来越多的初创企业。创造力正在蓬勃发展,印度和中国拥有大量聪明的工程师人才。


 


Anonymous


I’ll only address a subset of your question.


I am a basic WASP geriatric individual who has had a couple of very bad years from a health standpoint.


Of the many doctors I’ve been helped by covering oncology, gastroenterology, endocrinology, urology and cardiology- the physicians who graduated from medical school in India before coming here to practice have been far more empathetic, intellectual, sensitive and communicative than my American educated doctors. Consistently.


Not sure if it’s just cultural ethos or Indian education nurturing. On the other side of the coin, one of my Harvard trained American doctors was so arrogant that I can’t believe he keeps many patients. Just my two cents


我只能回答你问题的一部分。


我是一个普通的WASP老年人,从健康的角度来看,我经历了非常糟糕的几年。


在众多帮助过我的医生中,包括肿瘤学、胃肠病学、内分泌学、泌尿学和心脏病学—从印度医学院毕业的医生远比在美国受过教育的医生更有同情心、更聪明、更敏感、更善于沟通。


不确定这只是文化气质还是印度教育的结果。另一方面,我一位在哈佛学习过的美国医生非常傲慢。只是我的个人意见。


 


Arty Harjai, Education counselor


Being a counsellor in India I would like to comment on the comparison of the IITians with the Ivy League students! I have lived in the Silicon Valley for about a year and have witnessed the contributions of the IITians first hand . It is a well known fact that IITians are driving the big companies and start ups in the US! The contribution of an IITian to the US economy has been discussed in the media and political circles! I would say that an IITian would be better than a Harvard graduate!


作为一名印度的辅导员,我想对印度理工学院和常春藤盟校学生的比较发表一些看法!我在硅谷生活了大约一年,亲眼目睹了印度理工学院的贡献。众所周知,印度理工人正在推动美国的大公司和创业公司!印度理工人对美国经济的贡献已经引发了媒体和政界的讨论!我想说印度理工人会比哈佛毕业生更出色!


 


Nolan Aubb, B.S. Physics (2008)


Talent can only be expressed when there are various opportunities, pathways to success. I think each school has roughly equal amount of talent. I think that ANY school has talent students provided that school can actually cultivate ihat talent and then present opportunities for it to bloom in.


Indian and Chinese universities may not be able to provide the same opportunities as MIT can to their students. You need collaborators, investors, access to technologies at a reasonable price. If resources are few, then cultivated talent may not properly bloom.


I think that may be the advantage of MIT. They present their students with opportunities. IIT and Tsingua need to do the same.


才能只有在有各种各样的机会、成功的途径时才能表现出来。我认为每个学校的人才数量大致相等。我认为只要学校能够培养人才,并为其提供发展的机会,任何一所学校都会有人才。


印度和中国的大学可能无法为学生提供与麻省理工学院相同的机会。你需要合作者,投资者,以合理的价格获得技术。如果资源很少,那么培养出来的人才可能不会充分的进步。


我认为这可能是麻省理工的优势。他们为学生提供机会。印度理工学院和清华大学也需要这样做。


 


Answer Hsu, B.A. Investing & Computer Science, Sun Yat-Sen University (2016)


When it comes to intelligence, no difference. In hubei province, every year more than 500 thousand high school graduates compete for less than 100 seats. Horrifyingly just 1 in 5000 of those students get the tickets to Tsinghua , however, the stuation is worse in henan province, which is 1 /8000.


When it comes to creativity, it truely is. China lags behind in terms of technology, no matter social technology or natural technology. Take computer science, which is my major, for example, we were required to use forign textbooks, our professor once told us textbooks written by chinese were bullshit. In the future maybe China can outrun America with regard to technology, whereas at the moment it is better for China to follow America, which is somehow regarded as lack of creativity.


When it comes to delivering speech, American are really good at that.


说到智力,没有区别。在湖北省,每年有50多万高中毕业生竞争不到100个名额。令人震惊的是,只有5000分之一的学生能拿到清华大学的录取通知书,而河南省的情况更糟,只有8000分之一。


说到创造力,的确如此。无论是社会技术还是自然技术,中国在技术上都落后了。以计算机科学为例,这是我的专业,我们必须使用外国的教科书,我们的教授曾经告诉我们中文编写的教科书全是一派胡言。在未来,也许中国可以在技术上超过美国,但是现在,中国最好跟随美国,因为中国缺乏创造力。


说到演讲,美国人真的很擅长。


 


James Leland Harp, studied at Harvard University


A2A. How talented are students from India and China's top universities, such as Tsinghua University or an IIT, compared to students from America's top universities like Harvard or MIT?


Based on being in classrooms of Chinese and Indian students at Berkeley, Stanford, and Harvard, top students from Tsinghua and from top IITs are the same as top students from US top research universities.


与哈佛、麻省理工等美国顶尖大学的学生相比,来自印度和中国顶尖大学(如清华大学或印度理工学院)的学生有多聪明?


在伯克利、斯坦福和哈佛的中国和印度学生的课堂上,清华和印度工学院的优等生与美国顶尖研究型大学的优等生是一样的。


 


David P. Chassin, PhD Mechanical Engineering, University of Victoria (2018)


Based on my 30 years experience hiring and supervising engineers from many countries including both India and China I would say the average of those who come to the US is above the US average but with a smaller variance. In other words the very best US students are far better but there are more generally good ones from India and China. I have been told that the very best from those countries do not come to the US. But in my opinion, if you want the best of the best, the French and Russians engineers from their top schools are all around better than anyone else including the US.


根据我30年从包括印度和中国在内的许多国家招聘和监督工程师的经验,我认为从国外来美国的工程师的平均水平高于美国本土工程师的平均水平,但差异较小。换句话说,最优秀的美国学生要好得多,但总体而言,印度和中国的学生更好。有人告诉我,这些国家最优秀的人才不会来到美国。但在我看来,如果你想要最好中的最好,那么法国和俄罗斯顶尖学校的工程师比包括美国在内的任何国家的工程师都要好。


 


Manali Chatterjee, studied at Indian Institute of Technology, Kharagpur


I think much has been already discussed a lot.


I would like to add one point more in this discussion that the ecosystem of MIT/Harvard is far smarter than IIT (don’t know about China). In IIT students are more interested in getting a job of fat package than research. most of the UG students of IITs (of which the institute is widely famous) lacks critical thinking. But this is the same group of students which had cleared IIT JEE, an extremely competitive and difficult exam. I think that it is more of the ecosystem that nourishes their tender brain to dream more about getting a job than cultivating critical thinking ability.


我认为围绕这个问题的讨论已经很充分了。


我想再补充一点,麻省理工学院/哈佛的生态系统比印度理工学院智能得多(不了解中国)。在印度理工学院,学生更感兴趣的是找到一份待遇优厚的工作,而不是学术研究。大多数印度理工学院的学生缺乏批判性思维。但他们全都通过了印度理工学院JEE考试,这是竞争激烈、难度极大的考试。我认为,生态系统在更大程度上滋养了他们脆弱的大脑,让他们更多地是梦想得到一份工作,而不是培养批判性思维能力。


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