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为什么菲律宾比越南富裕,看起来也更摩登呢

来源:  三泰虎    时间:2020-06-21 10:04:27   关注:71   转发
Why is the Philippines still richer and look a lot more modern than Vietnam

为什么菲律宾比越南富裕,看起来也更摩登呢?

以下是Quora读者的评论:

Ngo The Hoan, Software Engineer with an interest in history

Because many Filipinos love to dig out photos of Vietnam like this:

因为很多菲律宾人喜欢考古,翻出越南的这种照片:


They then proceed to compare it with photos of their cities like this:

然后将其与自己城市的照片进行对比,如下图所示:

Then conclude that their country looks richer and more developed. But the reality is much more complicated.

You see, each tiny white blob you see in the Vietnam photo is a private property. Something that looks like this on land:

然后得出结论,他们的国家看起来更富有、更发达。但现实情况要复杂得多。

你看,你在越南照片上看到的每一个小的白点点都是私人财产。在实地上看起来是这样的:

They are called tube houses, a characteristic feature of Vietnamese cities. Tube houses came about due to people’s desire to make use of their small land. The more money you have, the more you build up.

The go nment is lenient, allowing you to build as many storeys as you like. So it’ completely normal to wake up one day and find your window blocked off because your neighbour decides to add another storey.

它们被称为管式房屋,是越南城市的一个特色。由于人们想要利用自己的小土地,于是出现了管状房屋。你的钱越多,盖得就越高。

政府很宽厚,允许您构建任意多楼层。所以当你某天醒来发现你的窗户被堵上了,那是因为你的邻居决定再加一层楼,这是完全正常的。

So why is this important to this discussion?

These houses are almost always used as commercial properties as well as place of resident if it is facing a street. Which means at least 50% of the small white blobs you see are commercial properties and businesses, at least 70% of them have uses other than residential. Their value will only go up and up as Vietnam’s economy grows. And they have been, which is why the number of rich people grow exponentially in Vietnam.

Importance of land value and home ownership

Have you ever wondered why there are so many family owned hotels and guest houses in Vietnam?

Because the tube houses were turned into a hotel business by the family.

If the business doesn’t do well? Well they can close it and turn the lower floor into a phone shop, the second floor into a childcare centre etc etc

为什么这对我们的讨论很重要呢?

这些房子通常都是临街的商业地产和居民住宅。这意味着你看到的这些白色小点点中至少有50%是商业地产和企业,至少有70%不是用于居住。它们的价值只会随着越南经济的增长而不断上升。事实也的确如此,这就是为什么越南的富人数量呈指数级增长的原因。

土地价值和房屋所有权的重要性

你有没有想过为什么越南有那么多的家族酒店和招待所?

因为高筒式房屋被家族改造成了酒店生意。

如果生意做得不好呢?嗯,他们可以关闭酒店,把低层用来开手机店,把二楼用来开托儿所等等。

Every single business you see in this photo is someone’s house:

你在这张照片中看到的每一家企业都是某人的房子:


If you look at the first Vietnam skyline photo, you’re probably thinking that Vietnamese cities have no trees. But quite the opposite, the trees simply got blocked off by the height of the tube houses. So the only trees you see are parks.

And you must be thinking the tall tube houses only exist in Hanoi and HCMC, but not at all. The tube houses turned businesses are all over Vietnam.

如果你看到第一张越南的天际线照片,你可能会认为越南的城市没有树木。但恰恰相反,这些树被高的管状房屋挡住了。你只能看到公园里的树。

你一定在想,这些高筒式房屋只存在于河内和民建中心,但事实并非如此。由高筒式房屋转变的商业建筑遍布越南。

Notice the tube houses on two sides are as tall as the go nment building in the middle.

So to Filipinos, Vietnam might look poorer than the Philippines because their definition of rich and developed is tall skyscrapers and many cars on the roads.

But to Vietnamese people, we understand that tall skyscrapers don’t mean they are richer. Because people who own those skyscrapers belong to the 1%.

But people who own Vietnamese tube houses are at least 90% of our population. And people who own tube houses that can be turned into a business is at least 80%.

So to answer this question: looking rich is a perception. So our definition of looking rich is actually different from Filipinos, as seen through many answers here.

To determine which country is really richer, I guess we will have to wait until the Vietnam and Philippines new GDP is announced next year, as both Vietnam and Philippines are undergoing GDP revision. Either way it’s best for both countries to continue to improve the lives of their citizens, as richer citizens are synonymous with richer countries.

注意两边的高筒式房屋和中间的政府建筑一样高。

所以对菲律宾人来说,越南可能看起来比菲律宾穷,因为他们对富裕和发达的定义是高耸的摩天大楼和道路上的许多汽车。

但对越南人来说,我们明白摩天大楼并不意味着他们就更富有。因为那些拥有摩天大楼的人属于那1%。

但拥有越南高筒式房屋的人至少占我们人口的90%。而拥有可以转化为商业的高筒式房屋的人至少占80%。

所以回答这个问题:看起来富有只是一种个人感觉。所以我们对看起来富有的定义实际上与菲律宾人不同,从这里的许多答案就可以看出。

要确定哪个国家真的更富有,我想我们必须等到越南和菲律宾明年公布新的GDP数据之时,越南和菲律宾目前都在进行GDP修正。无论哪种方式,对两国来说,继续改善其公民的生活才是最重要的,公民富裕了,国家才能算是富裕。



Hoàng Ngọc Tường Vy, former Owner

Why is the Philippines still richer than Viet Nam? Because the Philippines IS still richer than Viet Nam. To answer this question in an objective, non-political manner, we can make a very simple example for easy comparison.

I don’t know both Viet Nam’s and the Philippines’ GDP before 1945. To make it easy, let’s say the two countries had relatively equal GDP in 1945. The Philippines, like other countries, didn’t have to overcome 30 years of terrible continuous wars like Viet Nam.

To keep it short and simple, I will not mention 2 wars after 1975. After the Reunion war in 1975, under the US embargo - which was lifted 19 years later in 1994, Viet Nam had to build everything almost from scratch. Regarding economic and infrastructure development, not many things can happen overnight. So if we take 1994 as the start point for economic development, Viet Nam has started developing only for 25 years. Although there are positive comments on recent development all over the country, as you can see, Viet Nam still has a lot to do to become rich.

为什么菲律宾至今仍比越南富裕?因为菲律宾就是比越南富裕啊。为了客观地、非政治性地回答这个问题,我们可以举一个非常简单的例子来比较。

我不知道1945年前越南和菲律宾各自的GDP。为了简单起见,我们就假设1945年两国的GDP大致相等。菲律宾和其他国家一样,不需要像越南那样经历30年来持续不断的可怕战争。

为了简洁起见,我就不提1975年后的两场战争了。1975年战争爆发后,在美国的禁运下(19年后的1994年才解除),越南不得不从零开始。在经济和基础设施发展方面,很难在短时间内取得成绩。因此,如果我们把1994年作为经济发展的起点,越南仅仅发展了25年。尽管全国各地对最近的发展都有积极的评论,正如你所看到的,越南要致富还有很长路要走。

If we compare 2 students who both graduated in 1945, one started working for money and skills right after school. The other was pulled into continuous wars, abandoned by community another 19 years, finally started working in 1994, who do you think would be richer by now?

I’d be really proud to know that Viet Nam is richer than the Philippines or any other country. However, for a country to get rich, it takes a lot of critical factors including time. I don’t know who you are but please do what you can to make your country rich and strong.

Hope this entertains you in some way.

如果我们比较两个1945年毕业的学生,其中一个在毕业后就开始工作,累积收入和技能。另一个被卷入旷日持久的战争,又被社会遗弃了19年,终于在1994年开始工作,你觉得现在谁会更富有?

如果我知道越南比菲律宾或任何其他国家都富有,我会非常自豪。然而,一个国家要致富需要很多关键因素,其中就包括时间。我不知道你是谁,但请尽你所能让你的国家富强起来吧。

希望这能让你在某种程度上开心一些。



Rick Almeda, former Assistant Cashier at Metrobank (2001-2003)

Because we Filipinos had a headstart when it comes to opening up the Economy and Modernization. After World war 2; our Economy opened up to World Trade and Westernization. Many of our Intellectuals studied in the West and brought home modern ideas into building Infrastructures and upgrading the Economy in general. As a matter of fact; our Rice technology was highly advanced in Asia; more so than Japan which was just recovering from the War. However; since the 1970’s’ our Economy stagnated because of poor leadership and infighting among different political factions in our country. We were Modern’ yes but not as Rich as in the 1960’s.

Vietnam; on the other hand; was terribly devastated by the War. Everyone knows the conflict between the US and North Vietnam before. After the Vietnam War; the Communist party there took leadership of the whole country. So by the 1990’s Vietnamese officials opened up their Country gradually to the West. it seems that their opening up uplifted many Vietnamese out of Poverty. They are starting to Recover and Rebuild their Country much like China did in the 1980’s.

因为我们菲律宾人在开放经济和现代化方面领先一步。第二次世界大战后,我们的经济就向世界贸易和西方化开放了。我们的许多知识分子在西方学习,并把现代思想引入到基础设施建设和整体经济升级中。事实上,我们的稻米技术在亚洲非常先进;比刚刚从战争中恢复过来的日本更先进。然而,自从20世纪70年代以来,由于领导不力和国内不同政治派别之间的内讧,我们的经济停滞不前。我们是现代摩登的,是的,但不像60年代那么富有了。

越南,在另一方面,被战争摧毁得一塌糊涂。大家都知道美国和北越之间的冲突。越南战争后,越共领导了全国。20世纪90年代,越南逐渐向西方开放了他们的国家。开放似乎让许多越南人摆脱了贫困。他们开始恢复和重建他们的国家,就像1980年代的中国一样。

I have visited Vietnam a number of times already. Truth be told; the Philippines has more modern infrastructure than Vietnam. HOWEVER; The Vietnamese are catching up FAST. They have infrastructures in Ho chi minh (The Saigon tower) and in Nha Trang (Cable car to an island) that we in the Philippines dont have. In a few years’ time; I believe Vietnam may overtake the Philippines when it comes to Modernization because many Multinational companies plan to shift their production from China to Vietnam. Vietnamese GDP would increase substantially as a result.

我已经去过越南好几次了。说实话,菲律宾拥有比越南更多的现代化基础设施。但越南人正在迎头赶上。他们在胡志明(西贡大厦)和芽庄(到岛屿的缆车)拥有我们菲律宾也不具备的基础设施。我相信几年后,越南在现代化方面可能会超过菲律宾,许多跨国公司计划将生产从中国转移到越南。越南的GDP将大幅增长。



Mon Querubin, lives in The Philippines

The Philippines has huge wealth gap as compared to Vietnam. So the wealthy in the Philippines are really rich while the poor are really really dirt poor. So in areas where there is so much wealth, the development is really high. In fact, almost all CBDs in the Philippines are built and designed and maintained by private corporations. This way, as such concentration of development is high.

Also, the development in Vietnam is implemented centrally and uniformly throughout the land. In the Philippines, the development is devolved to provincial levels so development of cities depends on the local go nment’s efforts. So you have hyper developed areas and really underdeveloped ones.

与越南相比,菲律宾的贫富差距很大。所以菲律宾的富人非常富有,而穷人非常非常穷。因此在那些非常富有的地区,发展速度非常快。事实上,菲律宾几乎所有的CBDs都是由私人公司建造、设计和养护的。这样,发展的集中度就很高。

而越南的开发是中央和全国统一实施的。在菲律宾,房产开发渗透到了省级,城市的发展依赖于当地政府的努力。所以菲律宾同时拥有超级发达的地区和真正不发达的地区。

This is why, in areas with development, you can see really observe huge show of wealth in the Philippines. In Vietnam, though, development is much more uniform so roads from Hanoi to the provinces are usually good throughout unlike in the Philippines where the road quality depends on the place.

If you look down on poverty level, the Philippines have more poor than Vietnam. This is because Vietnam is developing all parts of its nation, unlike the Philippines where everything is given to Manila and scraps are given to the rest

这就是为什么你能在发达地区看到菲律宾的巨大财富。但在,越南的发展更加均衡,从河内到各省的公路通常都很好,不像菲律宾的道路质量取决于各个地方。

如果你看看贫穷水平,菲律宾的穷人比越南多。这是因为越南正在全面发展,不像菲律宾,所有的东西都优先供应马尼拉,剩下的渣渣才轮到其他地方。



William P. Durborow Jr., lives in The Philippines (2017-present)

Frankly, I'm not sure it does. Both countries have areas that maintain a modern and even opulent appearance, and both have areas that are still in their natural undeveloped state. I don't have first hand experience with Vietnam. I've only ever seen her coastline from a distance. The rest of what I know or believe is through the accounts of other people and the internet. I much of what is passed as facts there are filtered through the personal biases of others. I do have firsthand experience of the Philippines. It is a mix that ranges from the obscenely wealthy to those subsisting off the land. Don't let appearances fool you. The man surrounded by family that love him is richer than him with fattest wallet.

坦白地说,我不确定。这两个国家都有一些地区拥有摩登甚至奢华的景观,也都有一些地区仍然处于自然不发达的状态。我对越南没有直观经验。我只从远处眺望过她的海岸线。我所知道或相信的信息都是通过别人的说法和互联网。我认为那些被当作事实的东西都是经过别人带有偏见的过滤的。我对菲律宾十分熟悉。这是一个形形色色的群体,既有极其富有的人,也有靠土地为生的人。别让表面情况蒙蔽了你。一个被家人关爱着的人比只剩下大钱袋的人呢更富有。



Thao Nguyen, former Worker at VinFast

Unfortunately it’s true im Vietnamese and compared to other answers here I don’t feel richer than the philippines because there gdp is higher and gdp per capita and human develoment is higher . Manila also has mrt and LRT system while Vietnam still nothing operational. Manila is a lot more modern than any city in Vietnam because the amount of roads flyovers big malls skyscrapers and infrastructure available compared to Vietnam.

不幸的是,我是越南人,和其他国家相比,我并不觉得越南比菲律宾更富有,菲律宾的GDP更高,人均GDP和人类发展水平更高。马尼拉也有地铁和轻轨系统,但越南没有。马尼拉比越南的任何一个城市都要现代化,因为与越南相比,马尼拉有大量的公路、大型购物中心、摩天大楼和基础设施。



Andrew Chan

I am Chinese National doing business in southeast Asia when I had vacation in both countries Philippine look richer and more modern than Vietnam because they had longer peaceful economic growth than Vietnam and Vietnam has one of the most corrupt go nments in Asia even today.

我是一个在东南亚做生意的中国人,我在这两个国家度假过,菲律宾看起来比越南更富有,更现代,而越南政府是亚洲最附败的政府之一,即使在今天依然如此。



Nguyen Duong Vu, Software Engineer - Senior Web Developer

Because of co ption is very bad in Vietnam. Government corporations always make huge debt & loss. If there are no co ption & go nment corporations, Vietnam can be as good as Malaysia or even Singapore.

因为附败在越南非常严重。国有企业总是要背负巨额债务和亏损。如果没有附败和国企,越南可以和马来西亚甚至新加坡一样优秀。



Danh Dang, studied at Ho Chi Minh City

I’m Vietnamese and I feel we are still behind the philippines but slowly catching up but the future is grim because of Covid - 19.

Also to the user saying 90% live in the famous tube houses that is not true and i suggest you stop lying because I live here and I know for a fact only 0.2% of people live in those.

我是越南人,我觉得我们仍然落后于菲律宾,正在慢慢赶上,由于新冠疫情,未来是严峻的。

还有用户说90%的人住在高筒式房屋里,那不是事实,我建议你们不要说谎,我就住在这里,我知道只有0.2%的人会住在那种房子里。
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